Deep Dive: The Window Replacement Saga

This post has been long in the making, at least in our heads. We intend to share more in-depth posts about the larger project that we have tackled on Idilio, it is just hard to find the time! Well, since I wrote the last entry on the flight to Ireland for our family vacation, I thought I’d build on that momentum and take this one on, in the return leg. Warning: This post may be a bit boring for family and friends, so feel free to skim or skip. But for those who love boats and/or who might consider taking a similar project on, do read on, you may find some value here! This is the abbreviated story of how we bought our boat in October 2021 thinking we’d pay someone else to fix the windows, but ended up frantically installing new windows in June 2022 just before the boat was picked up for transport to Bayfield. And of how lucky we feel that somehow it all actually worked out – because this was hard, but it could have been way worse!

 

How Bad Were the Windows?

The windows on this boat were bad. Really bad… as bad as I’ve seen. Most of the six sliding windows didn’t slide, they seemed permanently fixed in place. The surveyor gave up on efforts to slide them open, fearing that we could break them. On the exterior, many messy layers of silicone and/or other sealants were evident, clearly (failed) repeated attempts at repairing leaks. The weatherstripping had shrunk with age and was falling out - the gaps sometimes filled with sealant. It was ugly.

The damage was evident on the interior: Extensive signs of water intrusion were all over the place, you could see where water had been running freely over the wood and heavily discolored it. Worst of all, the smell of the boat was musty and mildewy. The tracks for the sliding panels were not only full of gunk, but seemed like lively terrariums decorated with colorful moss. Gaskets and felt were completely deteriorated or gone, leaving a sticky mess on the glass. And, of course, there were no screens at all on any of the windows, only remnants of the hardware intended to hold them. 

So, replacing the windows was a top priority for us. We saw no point in spending time, money, and effort on most other work if it was going to keep getting wet and damaged. It made sense to “button up” the cabin to keep it dry first, and go from there. Now, this project was most definitely not one that we had considered doing ourselves when we bought the boat. In fact, we tried to have Manitowoc Marina (where the boat was located) give us an estimate for refurbishing the windows (as well as some other big projects, such as repairing some bulkheads, which I’ve written about before – and which we also had to do ourselves) before we finalized the purchase. But, for better or worse, being unable to get a clear estimate from them, we still moved forward with the purchase, lowering our offer to account for the risk and assuming that the service department at the marina would still be able and complete a window refurbishing project. That was not the case. 

 

How We Got Stuck Doing the Job

Shortly after closing, we met with a marina manager, who told us it was impossible to estimate how much work it would take, but that doing some math on hourly rates, he thought a single one of the salon slider windows may be upwards of $2,000 to refurbish, and that they couldn’t be sure on timing. And that was just for redoing the bedding and gasketing… But that would still leave us with old frames and no windows screens… Given that there were 11 windows on the boat that we were looking to refurbish (7 on the salon and 4 in the aft cabin), we didn’t like the sound of that… Further conversations didn’t help, other than to make us realize that new windows would end up being likely better as well as less costly. At some point in November, with a mixture of can-do enthusiasm and a slight sinking feeling, I eventually uttered the words “I think we may have to replace these windows ourselves”, to which Becca incredulously responded “WE are going to replace the windows?!” 

 

Finding the Right Vendor

As with most boat projects, taking this on required a lot of research and time. We’ve also found that – unfortunately – there isn’t always great support front vendors. Requesting estimates was a chore, and vendors were often obscure about the details of what was being estimated. I got overall measurements for the windows and sent a drawing to multiple vendors. We had heard great things about Bounty Marine, but after leaving a voicemail for them and not getting a quick response, I thought I had moved on to others… One manufacturer from Canada talked a big game on the phone, only to stop responding soon after. Another one actually sent a prompt estimate, saying they would like to help me even though they couldn’t promise a timeline, but also failed to respond to a few follow up questions. 

 

We ended up being very VERY close to placing an order from another vendor – Motion Windows – who had provided a quick and seemingly reasonable estimate. However, upon learning more, there were quite a few compromises: they couldn’t provide screens for some of the windows because of the direction they operated, they couldn’t make the double-slider for the aft cabin (so that both the head and cabin could be ventilated), and they also weren’t sure that they could make the two small curved windows for the aft of the boat at all. They only offered that they could “try to figure something out”. Even with all this, we almost sent a deposit, but I wanted just a little more clarity on what “figuring something out” for the rear windows meant. What would happen if they couldn’t? Would the glazing be acrylic or glass? Their response: “sorry, we can’t answer so many questions for a single order” (Of eleven windows, mind you!) We definitely dodged a bullet not doing business with them. If a vendor doesn’t want to provide support when they don’t have your money yet, imagine after they do! Luckily, that same day, I got a call from John Gothie at Bounty Marine. My voicemail apparently had been lost but I had also filled out their contact form online, and having seen that, he reached out to me. 

 

Bounty Marine provides exact OEM windows for Tollycrafts. They are even improved from the originals, with the weatherstripping now on the inside. John already knew the corner radiuses that I needed, that the salon walls were thicker than the aft cabin walls so the trim rings would have to be manufactured differently, and the specific color options for Tollycrafts inside and outside. He could provide all sliding windows in the original configuration, including the double slider mentioned above, plus screens for all of them. He spent much time on the phone answering all my questions, and some extra time talking boats. He owns a Tollycraft. His pride in what they do was evident, and his price was only marginally higher than the other – much inferior – option above. He was straightforward in telling me that his machine for bending (for the curved aft windows) was currently down with a broken motor, so he couldn’t be sure about the timeline on those two windows, but that when he got that fixed, the windows would be actual bent glass, which is bent together with the frame, so the windows would be exactly like all the others. With that timeline caveat, the lead time was about 14 weeks. We enthusiastically moved forward with them, and – spoiler alert – they delivered, and then some (read on, if you are still awake!)… 

 

Window Removal and Template Making

So, Becca and I went to work on the sticky and messy job of taking off all the old windows and scraping off all the old goo. Some windows came out easier than others, with some requiring serious prying and cutting of the old seal. It was quite the job, which culminated in figuring out how to lower the windows from the boat in a safe manner. Some of these windows are quite large, but we were able to lower those using a couple of ropes, the same approach we used previously to bring down heavy items such as the old toilets and ice maker. We had done a good job documenting this process on our 12/31/21 post, so please feel free to read this one for all the window removal fun: Just ...Pop It Out!

 

Even though Bounty Marine had done similar windows before, they like to confirm sizes before starting production. So, we cut large pieces of butcher paper and traced the outlines of all the rough openings, another pretty time-consuming task! We mailed the roll of drawings and went to work on other projects, while anxiously waiting for updates on our new windows. Jon was good about sharing several updates along the way. We were super excited to receive a text from him a few weeks later, showing pictures of the curved windows being made, just in time to meet the estimated timeline. On June 17 last year we had this box waiting for us at the marina. Christmas in summer indeed! 

Window Installation

Now, the hardest part. There is no sugar coating this, this was a nasty job! Not technically complex, but a lot of sweat equity was invested. It got to be a bit of a grind, not only because of the amount of work needed, but also emotionally because of the rapidly approaching deadline to have the boat transported to our home marina in Bayfield. We had a locked transport date, so we had a deadline and the clock was ticking! Thankfully, we had some help. Becca’s parents volunteered (for the second time!) to spend a weekend helping us with the boat, and they provided much-needed reinforcements for this long weekend of labor. 

Each window had to be brought to the warehouse, lifted up to the boat, and test fitted… And of course, every one of the rough openings needed some adjustment for a perfect fit. We spent most of those couple of days grinding away with a belt sander when minor adjustments were needed, and carefully cutting the openings a little larger with a multi-tool when the adjustment was a little larger. 

The mess we made was also absolutely epic, and somewhat depressing… It felt like being set back a few months, bringing the boat back to an absolute construction zone, after we had made some progress in making it feel a bit cleaner and neater. We were creating pools of sanding dust that was going everywhere. I can still smell the wood and fiberglass. 

 

Some windows were tested in the opening upwards of 15 times until we got it right, as we were also being careful not to overdo it… It’s easier to grind away than to build back, which is what I had told Jon at Bounty Marine… I’d rather have the windows a hair large than too small, so I couldn’t really complain. But some of those windows, when they were still not going in after 10 to 12 tries at adjusting the opening, let’s just say that this tested our gumption, and stamina… 

After expanding all the openings to fit the new windows, we got to installation. This meant first making sure that we removed as much of the old sealant as possible and cleaned the perimeter very well, to ensure a good bond. I chose TotalBoat Seal for the installation for several reasons: it provides both a good bond and a waterproof seal, is UV stable, accepts sanding and paint, and yet it is not impossible to remove if you ever need to. I also find it easier to work with than silicone. The only drawback is that it sets very quickly, and this is where having more sets of hands really came in – well – handy. 

We mocked up each window in place, then pre-taped both the window and the boat, to help us work fast and neatly once the sealant went on. I got out my brand-new caulk gun and worked quickly around the window opening. We dropped the window in and immediately someone would be screwing the trim ring on from the interior (which also pulls the window in place), while others cleaned up the excess sealant from the perimeter and peeled back the tape. Lots of work, but the results were good and neat! By the end of this 3-day weekend, with our four sets of hands, we were able to expand all the rough openings for the 11 windows, and to install the 7 salon windows. Becca’s parents really made the difference and stuck with us throughout long days – we absolutely couldn’t have done it alone. 

 

Bounty Marine did make a small mistake on the order, as they shipped us trim rings for 3 of the salon windows (the forward ones) which were intended for a shallower wall (such as in the aft cabin). But I called John on the spot, he picked up and said he’d put those into fabrication immediately. It turns out this was a blessing in disguise, as these trim rings were not going to properly fit between the protruding wood trim inside the cabin. I described the issue to Jon, and asked if there was a way to customize these with a narrower border on two of the sides. This is something outside their standards. But, even though I acknowledged that this was a custom request and offered to pay them, they fabricated the new trim rings not only to the right depth, but also with a custom shorter profile around those sides, which I was able to fit between the linear wood trim in the cabin. They did not charge for this. I truly don’t know how many shops would provide this level of service, but it really was appreciated! 

 

Becca and I finished the installation of the aft cabin window the following weekend, and as you’ve all seen before, the boat made it onto the transport truck and to Bayfield last July. The windows are absolutely great! We were giddy during our first couple of heavy rains, going around and noticing the absolute lack of a single drop of water or any evidence of moisture making it into the cabin. The windows and the install, all 11 of them, came out bone dry! 

 

Also, the colors perfectly match the boat, the sliders operate smoothly, and the beautiful new screens will be a game-changing necessity for our boating quality of life. Like a few other major projects on the boat, we are pretty surprised at how it actually came together in the end, when so many things could have gone differently. But thankfully we found the right vendor who was knowledgeable and willing to provide the right support, we have family that was willing to lend a hand, and we somehow found the gumption to dig deep and tackle a project that at first sounded too big for us. Now, hopefully, we won’t have to worry about our boat’s windows ever again!